Episode 034 : Hugh Ross
Jose and Ryan talked with Hugh Ross (Narcisse from Nightbreed) about Nighbreed, Macbeth and corpse nectar. Sorry this one was a little short, we recorded only 5 minutes after episode 33, which we will not be doing again. Hugh was a great and gracious guest.
Portland Screening of Nightbreed Cabal Cut
Transcript Below
DANHAUSER: Episode thirty-four of the Clive Barker Podcast and we have Hugh Ross. Hugh, you played a lot of roles but one in particular Narcisse on Nightbreed.
ROSS: That’s right.
DANHAUSER: So, I’m Ryan Danhauser and with me today is Jose Leitao—
LEITAO: Hi!
DANHAUSER: We’re very happy to have you.
ROSS: I’m happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. It’s great. It’s all been very exciting the whole past year has been amazing discovering the whole interest in the film again. It’s been brilliant.
DANHAUSER: And you’ve been to some of the Cabal Cut screenings now, right?
ROSS: Yes, I have. I went to the Weekend of Horrors in Germany, and I saw the Frightfest screening in Leicester Square in London.
DANHAUSER: So, what was that like seeing that version of the Cabal Cut after twenty-three years?
ROSS: It was amazing because the whole job was a wonderful thing that happened because of Clive. And Clive being very, very loyal. I’d known Clive ages before that because he’d seen me do things in theater. So, he kind of dreamt up Narcisse for me, which was very lovely. We have this thing in England called pantomime, I don’t know if you know about pantomime—
DANHAUSER: Oh yes.
ROSS: I’d played Mother Goose in a pantomime show that he came to see with his family, I remember. It was very out there, and I think that’s where the very out-there aspect of Narcisse came from, which was such good fun to play.
LEITAO: Yeah, when we first see the character of Narcisse he’s in the hospital, we don’t know what happened to him, and we don’t know why he’s there. But we see that he has this way of delivering his dialog to Boone who says, “What did you just say?” and he says, (imitating Narcisse) “What did you just say?” You can tell with that tone of voice that he’s an actor, or has been an actor sometime. So immediately that’s what I saw as a backstory for character based off that simple delivery of the line that you give. Which was very interesting.
ROSS: Absolutely! The atmosphere on set was very relaxed, and Clive was very up for my being free with the text, really. If I had an idea, he would be very happy to try the idea out and lots of things happened in the moment.
DANHAUSER: I particularly love in the Cabal Cut just the extended scenes with Narcisse. And something really simple when Boone and Narcisse are confronting Decker above ground in Midian, with Narcisse introducing himself and saying his name.
ROSS: Yes, Yes, Yes.
DANHAUSER: We didn’t get that from the theatrical cut. People only knew his name from The Nightbreed Chronicles—
LEITAO: The credits.
DANHAUSER: Credits, yeah.
ROSS: Yeah, that’s great. Tons of stuff in the new cut become much clearer isn’t it? The relationship between Boone and Lori becomes much clearer.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, and the material between Lori and Babette. That material didn’t exist in the released version either.
ROSS: Yeah, it’s terrific.
LEITAO: Of course, I have to ask, as an actor, obviously you die in one of the cuts and the other you do not and make it to the end. Is it something you’re comfortable with the director’s cut—that’s going to be the Cabal Cut—is the one where you actually die?
(Ryan and Jose laugh)
ROSS: I’ve had to learn to live with that. What actually happened was that in the original script Narcisse did die, and then I suppose (laughs) thank—I’m not sure—Morgan Creek and Twentieth Century Fox after the test screenings decided that Narcisse was a good character and that he shouldn’t die, but instead live to be in—talk about vanity—in Nightbreed two, three, four, five, six, and to eternity. In fact, I’d finished the film and I joined the Rollins Shakespeare Company and did a couple of plays and my agent called and said, “They want to do some new scenes. An enhancement shoot and in this version I would not die.” So, we then shot the new scenes where I survived. Which was very flattering that they liked the character so much that they wanted him to be retained for a few more stories.
DANHAUSER: Like that scene outside of the barn at the end there.
ROSS: Yes. We did it over three Sundays and I remember I was doing two shows on a Saturday and a car came and took me to a hotel near Pinewood and for three consecutive Sunday’s we shot all day on the enhancement shoot. I remember a friend from the company, she said to me, “Hey I bet if twenty years ago someone said to you that on a Saturday night in Stratford the cars are going to take you to Pinewood Studios to shoot all day and you’d say, “What? That’s fantastic!” But, what you think is I’d actually like to have my feet up on a Sunday.
(Everyone laughs)
ROSS: But no, it was all very, very nice. And the scenes, the new scenes were lovely from my point of view.
LEITAO: Sometimes you see people who pop in the Facebook group Occupy Midian after they’ve gone to a screening and they’re like, “I can’t believe they killed Narcisse! I want Narcisse to live.” They get really offended that Narcisse has been dispatched.
DANHAUSER: I think that’s a good thing though because it shows how strong a character he is and that’s the whole point of killing Narcisse was that he was such a likable character. It’s the same with Simon Bamford’s character Ohnaka.
ROSS: Yeah, yeah.
DANHAUSER: There’s a lot of weight there to that death.
ROSS: I find it to be such a lovely thing that so many people have attached themselves to the movie. Right now, I’m doing a production of Macbeth in London in the west end with James McAvoy and at the stage door were Nightbreed fans with all this material. It’s all very flattering and exciting that that exists.
DANHAUSER: So how long will the production of Macbeth be going on?
ROSS: We’re on until the end of April.
DANHAUSER: Oh wow. Okay.
ROSS: Yes, and James McAvoy is very, very brilliant and it’s very exciting. It’s great because a lot of young people are coming to see the play because they’re X-men fans. They wouldn’t normally go see Shakespeare is what I mean. The reaction is absolutely amazing. So, it’s a great job.
DANHAUSER: What part are you playing in Macbeth?
ROSS: I play Duncan, who gets murdered quite early on, and then I return as the old doctor, who’s actually been combined into two parts which was rather nice who’s the Steve Walton scene with Lady Macbeth. It’s nice, it’s fun. I’m very much older than the rest of the cast and they’re all much shorter than me and I keep saying, “I feel like I’m surrounded by a whole lot of hobbits.”
(Ryan and Jose laugh)
LEITAO: I’ve seen some photos which I guess are from the genesis of the make-up for Narcisse. In one of them you have, instead of the bloody exposed scalp, a brighter green scaly appearance. Which is very interesting and is more according to the book. I was curious if they tried many different things, or was it just one or two?
ROSS: There were not a huge number of things, but I was terribly lucky because Neil Gordan who did my make-up, who’s a brilliant make-up artist, but I can’t really remember in detail in the way of tests and things. The make-up took hours of course. I used to be picked up at like 3:30 or 4:00 in the morning—
DANHAUSER: Oh, no!
ROSS: I got very good at going to sleep in the chair while Neil put music on and for three or four hours put the make-up on. He’s done awfully well too, and I thought he would do awfully well. He was a really top-notch make-up guy.
LEITAO: Were you introduced to your severed head before the shots?
(Ryan laughs)
ROSS: Yes, and that’s very scary having your head life casted. You only have a straw to breathe through.
DANHAUSER: Oh yeah.
ROSS: Somewhere there’s a photograph of standing with my head in my hands.
(laughter)
LEITAO: Oh wow!
ROSS: Yeah.
LEITAO: I was actually watching Trainspotting the other night and I did spot you almost immediately in the scene with Spud doing the job interview and you’re one of three at the table doing the job interview. I was like oh my god that’s Hugh Ross. Recently Ryan saw Patriot Games—
DANHAUSER: Two nights ago, I went back and watched Patriot Games again and I saw you as the defensive minister. Not quite as likable a character as Narcisse.
ROSS: Oh, yes that was wonderful. It was a huge budget and it took two days to do that tiny scene really. Harrison Ford was such good fun. He was great. Very professional and knew exactly what he wanted from the scene. He also had a great sense of humor. Where are you both at the moment?
DANHAUSER: I’m in Fairbanks, Alaska.
LEITAO: I’m in Portugal right now.
ROSS: In Portugal!
LEITAO: Yes! I will be moving to the United States on Friday, but I’m actually Portuguese and I’m in Portugal.
ROSS: That’s amazing! I didn’t know you could hook up three ways on a Skype call. That’s fantastic!
DANHAUSER: Oh, yeah. It’s been very helpful for us and this Podcast.
LEITAO: The wonders of technology.
ROSS: Shows you how old I am. Trying to understand the wonders of technology. I’m getting there slowly.
LEITAO: Oh, yeah! These screenings definitely have a lot of fans. They’ve been selling out everywhere. They just had one had the Keswick Festival on the 22nd.
ROSS: Yeah.
LEITAO: And today Russell Cherrington has announced—
ROSS: Yeah, in America.
LEITAO: Yeah, there will be one in May, in Portland, Oregon.
ROSS: I haven’t been invited yet. I’ve been waiting for my invitation.
(Hugh laughs)
LEITAO: Yes, yes. Absolutely.
ROSS: Russell is coming next Saturday to see Macbeth.
DANHAUSER and LEITAO: Oh really?
ROSS: So, I’ll see him next weekend.
DANHAUSER: You’ll have to hit him up—that would be great because me and Jose are both considering going to the Portland screening!
ROSS: Oh, that’s great!
LEITAO: Yes, indeed. That would be a great way to meet everyone there. And of course, there’s been talks of a documentary that’s going to made eventually for the whole restoration process of the Cabal Cut.
ROSS: Yes.
LEITAO: So, if all goes well I’m wondering if we’ll see all the cast interviewed for this documentary.
ROSS: Yes, that’d be fabulous. Marvelous. It’s been lovely meeting people again too. Like Ryan and Nic Vance.
LEITAO: One of the person’s we’re going to interview in the near future is Catherine Chevalier who played Rachel.
ROSS: Oh, you found Catherine!
DANHAUSER and LEITAO: Yes!
LEITAO: Yes, we did.
(Jose laughs)
ROSS: There was a lot of talk that no one could find her. I was very fond of Catherine. We had a lot of fun together.
DANHAUSER: After this Podcast is over I can send you her contact information if you want.
ROSS: Oh, please do. That would be wonderful.
DANHAUSER: She’s still in England.
ROSS: Oh, is she!?!
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
ROSS: Okay, that’d be great!
DANHAUSER: Yeah, I know, I was thinking about that because you shared a lot of scenes with her.
ROSS: Yes, we got along great together. That’d be very nice.
LEITAO: It’s just been a tremendous adventure for all the fans getting together joining forces to try and find all of these people. For example, the Cabal Cut has all of these issues with dubbing and re-dubbing. Doug Bradley’s voice was re-dubbed in post-production. Catherine Chevalier in post-production.
DANHAUSER: Nicholas Vince as well.
LEITAO: Oh, yes. Nicolaus Vince.
ROSS: Ollie Parker and I were both terribly flattered because we were told we weren’t going to be dubbed so we were very, very pleased about that. It was nice… Yeah.
DANHAUSER: So, did they fly you to Los Angeles to do the ADR?
ROSS: No, I can’t remember doing any ADR actually.
DANHAUSER: One rumor we heard was that Morgan Creek didn’t want to fly actors out to Los Angeles and that’s why there were those American voices in place of the original ones.
ROSS: No, I never heard that, but that might very well be. Does this go out live or how does this work?
DANHAUSER: It will probably go out in about a week.
ROSS: Okay, yeah.
LEITAO: The episode is edited before it’s released so we can cut out bloopers and silences.
DANHAUSER: We’ve been known to ask stupid questions once in a while.
(Jose laughs)
ROSS: Good.
LEITAO: Let me see my notes here—
ROSS: (Imitating Narcisse voice) Hey, take me now—
(Ryan laughs)
LEITAO: “Take me to Midian.” Yeah, I’m looking forward to the Cabal Cut. I’m one of the people who hasn’t been able to see it yet. But from what Ryan has been telling me I can almost envision the movie in my mind.
ROSS: Right.
LEITAO: It’s a movie that I think joins so many people that share the same kind of sensibilities to something that’s is foreign, exotic, and beautiful.
ROSS: Yes, quite. Poor Clive having to watch his vision be corrupted by the commercial interest of the producers I suppose.
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
LEITAO: Yes. Me and Ryan have done episodes talking about projects by Clive Barker that never came to be. And sometimes it must be such a frustrating experience to spend months or years on a project that eventually it doesn’t get or gets changed so much that it falls out into the void.
ROSS: The business of film is kind of like that. As a writer—good stuff actually—for years things that have almost been done with having Anthony Hopkins say yes, “I’m going to do this”, and then at the last minute they all fall through. It’s a terribly hard business. Yeah.
LEITAO: Referring to that scene you did when Lori is going towards the tabernacle and she finds you dancing with a corpse.
ROSS: (laughs) Yes.
LEITAO: That is a fantastic little scene. It’s played very campy, but it’s very entertaining.
ROSS: That scene was definitely in the enhancement shoot.
LEITAO: Oh, it was?
ROSS: I think so, yeah.
LEITAO: Simon Bamford told us—you can confirm or not—when you kissed that corpses mouth they put some tiny maggots in there. Is that true?
ROSS: I think that must have been Simon’s imagination. I can’t remember? (pauses) No, I don’t think that really happened I’m sorry to disappoint you.
(All laugh)
DANHAUSER: Yeah, I think he said it had worms in the mouth.
ROSS: No. Simon just has a good imagination. (laughs) No.
LEITAO: That whole scene is played in such a humorous way.
ROSS: You know that (imitates Narcisse voice) “sailors” was completely spur of the moment thing that was kept in the final edit. (laughs)
LEITAO: Oh, brilliant!
(Ryan laughs)
DANHAUSER: That’s an adlib?
ROSS: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
LEITAO: Brilliant. That worked so well. You know sometimes when fans show up on Occupy Midian, often times when someone puts a picture of Ohnaka someone types invariably “sailors.”
(laughter)
ROSS: Really?
LEITAO: Yeah, or “love those tattoos!” They just give that to Simon Bamford whenever a picture is posted. To test him.
ROSS: Yeah.
DANHAUSER: Did you see the picture that Jose had put together from a composite from a whole bunch of angles of Narcisse dancing with the corpse?
ROSS: Yes, I did see that.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, that looks amazing.
ROSS: Yeah, it’s perfect.
LEITAO: Yes, yes. You actually commented on it. You said, “nectar.”
DANHAUSER: Oh, yeah what did you mean by that?
ROSS: Yes, I did.
LEITAO: Delightful, I guess.
ROSS: Well, nectar is like wonderful fragrant and magnificent smells.
DANHAUSER: Oh okay, I understand. I thought maybe that was the corpse’s name.
ROSS: No, no, no.
(Ryan laughs)
DANHAUSER: Oh okay.
ROSS: No, no. (laughs) There’s actually a couple different meanings of the word nectar. I’m not quite sure. I’d have to look it up.
LEITAO: Yeah, that was something I did from the frames from the movie. I just thought I’d love to see a shot of the whole dancing couple, and I put it up on Valentine’s Day because I thought it was very, very appropriate.
(Ryan and Hugh laugh)
LEITAO: Yeah, you might not be gorgeous, but you’ll do for me.
(Ryan and Hugh continue to laugh)
ROSS: Jose, how long have you been a fan of the film?
LEITAO: I have been a fan of the film since it’s actually came out. Before, let me think about it. I think I saw the movie in 1992, I guess.
ROSS: Hmm-hmm. Right.
LEITAO: Shortly after I got all the stuff I could get from the movie like the making of book, and The Nightbreed Chronicles. Then I got the comic books. Then I became a really hardcore fan of Nightbreed and Clive Barker in general. So, it’s been hard as a fan to look at the book and say, “I see these pictures here, but these pictures are not from scenes in the movie, you know? I wonder what happened. I wonder what happens to change all this?
ROSS: Hmm, yeah.
LEITAO: So, eventually now I’ll be able to see The Cabal Cut pretty soon. Because I’m really looking forward to it.
ROSS: Good, that’s good. I hope so. It would be wonderful if it was released. It would be marvelous.
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
LEITAO: I think the idea is to have it released in a combo pack with the theatrical cut in HD. And eventually with the bonus disc with The Cabal Cut.
ROSS: Yeah?
LEITAO: We keep mentioning this on the Podcast, but there’s also a book on the production process of Nightbreed being prepared by Phil and Sara Stokes from Clive Barker’s official website, Revelations. Every time we find someone who is connected to the movie we direct them to Phil and Sara Stokes. If you have any kind of memories, pictures, calling sheets from the movie, stuff like that just send it over to them so they can put it in the book.
ROSS: In the U.K. of course there’s a great sadness that it’s never been released on dvd.
DANHAUSER: Right.
ROSS: No one understands why that is.
LEITAO: That’s a shame.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, and people keep asking us on Occupy Midian if there’s going to be a release for a U.K. version and I say “well, Russell (Cherrington) is from the U.K. and I don’t think he would let that slide this time.”
ROSS: Yeah, sure, sure. I don’t why that happens sometimes when some movies are released in some territories and others are.
DANHAUSER: The whole idea of region localization—especially when we’re English speaking countries doesn’t make sense to me.
ROSS: I know, I know. Crazy.
DANHAUSER: You know we were talking about introductions to Nightbreed, for me I went over to a friend’s house and he had rented it when it first came out on video. I saw that, and I was like “oh my god I have to know more.” I then went bought the book and that was my gateway into Clive Barker stuff. I bought all the Books of Blood and sort of worked my way through everything.
ROSS: The crew side of the play I’m doing for Macbeth one of the stage hands said to me, “Hey, you were Nightbreed! Oh my god, I saw that when I was seventeen and it was so important to me,” but can you get a copy etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, it’s been phenomenal the way it’s been impacted on people without them really realizing it.
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
ROSS: Yeah, I think it’s great.
LEITAO: It was definitely a movie before it’s time and the way it made the monsters be the good guys.
ROSS: Yeah.
LEITAO: Unfortunately, some of the people connected in releasing the movie they didn’t really get that whole sympathy for the monsters. Of course, now days it’s fashionable everybody like’s Lady Gaga’s Little Monsters and all that.
ROSS: You can look at all the vampire films in at the moment.
LEITAO: Yes!
ROSS: They’re all the good guys.
LEITAO: Monsters have become sexualized objects to desire you know.
ROSS: Yeah, quite.
LEITAO: The werewolves are muscle boys without shirts and the vampires instead of being undead actually just glitter in the light.
ROSS: (laughs) That’s right.
LEITAO: In one hand I think it’s interesting to have this attraction for the monsters to be the object of love as well. Not just because their different they shouldn’t be ostracized. At the same time, I think it takes something away from the monsters if you oversexualize them too much or make them too safe. A monster should never be to safe. You look at the Nightbreed and you see that they have an edge to them.
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
LEITAO: They can be friends, but if you rub them the wrong way they can cause an absolute terror.
ROSS: Yes, yes.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, you look at Peloquin. Midian is not actually the most welcoming place.
ROSS: Yeah.
LEITAO: Absolutely.
ROSS: Yeah, yeah.
LEITAO: And this might fall into the category of dumb questions to ask, but was that your real hair in the movie or was that a wig?
ROSS: (laughs hysterically) Absolutely not!
(Everyone laughs)
ROSS: No, no. It was a wig.
DANHAUSER: It looked pretty real.
ROSS: When it was sewed, it was funny because I’ve been bald for ages stemming from when I was thirty or thirty-five. This guy on Macbeth at the moment has Narcisse hair and I’m always telling him that’s the kind of hair—Narcisse hair—that I would’ve liked to have had. (laughs)
(Ryan laughs)
ROSS: I really liked that—yeah—and at the moment as the old Dr. Macbeth I think, “Hey, Ian McKellen move over, I’m Gandalf.
(Ryan and Jose laugh)
ROSS: I’ve got a great long wig in that too.
DANHAUSER: Oh, cool.
ROSS: Yeah.
DANHAUSER: So, in 1997 you were nominated for—
ROSS: (Laurence) Olivier awards, yes.
DANHAUSER: Yeah.
ROSS: Yeah, for Steven Sondheim’s Passion that was done at the West End then. It’s recently been revived. Yeah, it was for the non-singing part. Best supporting performance in a musical. It was the only part in the musical that didn’t involve singing which was odd. It was nice, yeah.
LEITAO: For so long we been thinking about Narcisse and enjoying the movie so much that sometimes when you get to talk to the actor doing it you kind of feel a little overwhelmed. So I apologize.
(All laugh)
ROSS: Well, thank you for being overwhelmed. (laughs) I should be (imitating Narcisse’s voice) “talking like this.”
(Ryan and Jose laugh)
DANHAUSER: That is something I want to compliment you on was the Narcisse voice. He had an American accent.
ROSS: Yeah. A lot of Brits seem to be going to them as of late. Clive always said to me when the movie was released, and we were expecting it to be this huge hit, “You must come to LA and cash in on that.” And I never did, and I’ve still never been to LA. I should be going.
DANHAUSER: Oh, wow.
ROSS: All the young British actors at the moment are all over their doing the pilot season and doing what they can to get big over there. Like Damien Lewis in Homeland, a brilliant accent.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, I’ve heard interviews with a lot of the cast on Walking Dead and a lot of them have British accents.
ROSS: Yes, I know. It’s interesting. This Brits are suddenly not just villains in the film. It used to be if you had a villain in the film it had to be a Brit.
DANHAUSER: Or a German.
ROSS: Or a German, yes. (laughs)
(laughter from Ryan and Jose)
ROSS: Hey, guys. Great to talk to you both.
LEITAO: Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity.
DANHAUSER: Thanks for coming on.
ROSS: A pleasure. I’m sorry it’s been awhile getting it arranged, but I’ve just been up to my ears in rehearsals and stuff.
DANHAUSER: Oh no, we understand.
ROSS: Yeah.
DANHAUSER: Looking through your profile on Internet Movie Database it looks like you’re involved in a lot of stuff.
ROSS: I like to be busy. It’s good to be busy. Yeah.
LEITAO: Well, best of luck with the Macbeth production and again thank you so much for giving us a little of the behind the curtain for the Nightbreed movie.
ROSS: Thank you so much.
DANHAUSER: Hopefully, we’ll see you at the screening.
ROSS: We’ll try to get my invitation to Portland through somehow. (laughs)
DANHAUSER: Yeah, yeah for sure.
ROSS: Okay.
LEITAO: Thank you so much.
DANHAUSER: Yeah, thank you.
ROSS: Take care. Bye-bye.
DANHAUSER: Bye.
LEITAO: Bye-bye.
